Hallo Werkspezies!
Das Geheimnis ist gelüftet!
Da es mir keine Ruhe gelassen hat, habe ich heute Abend etwas in meinem Archiv gestöbert und dabei habe ich es gefunden. Beim von Gübelin verwendeten Werk handelt es sich um das 13linige Kaliber 13VZ von Audemars Piguet, Le Brassus. Das Werk wurde von 1942 bis etwa 1960 nahezu unverändert gebaut. Es gibt drei Varianten:
13VZA (Lepine-Kaliber, also die kleine Sekunde bei der "9")
13VZSS (Savonette-Kaliber, also die kleine Sekunde bei der "6")
13VZSSC (Kaliber mit Zentralsekunde)
Zu Beginn waren beim Savonette-Typ, wie er von Gübelin verwendet wurde, das Ankerrad und das Sekundenrad unter separaten Kloben, später kamen beide Räder unter einem Kloben.
Quelle: Chronos, 1. Heft vom September/Oktober 1992, Seite 93/94.
Viele Grüße
Karsten

Hallo Wolfgang,
da lag Fritz von Osterhausen schon richtig. Lediglich hat er das Z hinter dem V als 2 interpretiert. Die "13" steht wohl für die Kalibergröße und ist nicht auf der Grundplatte gestempelt. Auch die Bezeichnung SSC für Zentralsekunde ist richtig. Das Einzige, was mir nicht einleuchtet, ist seine Herstellerangabe und wie er darauf kommt. Die Bildmarken von Valjoux und Audemars Piguet sind ziemlich verschieden. Ich habe in meinen Unterlagen zuerst nach einem Valjoux Kaliber mit dieser Bezeichnung gesucht und nichts gefunden.
Viele Grüße
Karsten

Respekt! Ihr seid wahre Uhren-Detektive

Hallo Wolfgang,
ich hoffe, Du unterrichtest uns über die Antwort auf Deine Anfrage bei Gübelin. Vielen Dank für den Post http://www.watchprosite.com, den ich noch nicht kannte. Werde ihn demnächst mal etwas genauer unter die Lupe nehmen!
Viele Grüße
Karsten

Hallo,
die Sache ist noch nicht ausgestanden und Fritz von Osterhausen hat doch recht. Das Gübelin-Cal. und weitere Kaliber von PP und AP verwenden ein 13liniges Valjoux-Chronographen-Kaliber als Basis. Wenn man im watchprosite weiterliest, findet man als Erklärung den beigefügten Artikel, der die Zusammenhänge erklärt.
Viele Grüße
Karsten

It's a bit comlicated, but here you go... Jan 25 2007,05:52 AM
Hi Steve,
it's a bit complicated, but quite simple at the same time.
Please take all below with a grain of salt - it's what I believe is correct, but I don't consider this authoritatively.
All movements you mention share the same roots and in this case "roots" means they share the same going train.
The Valjoux 13''' family started out with a monopusher chrono which I believe was called cal. 13 only.
This was soon changed into cal. VZ - a two pusher chronograph movement (seconds on "9") with minute counter (on "3").
That's the base for the PP ref. 1518 in your first picture as well as for other PP "simple" chronos and rattrapantes of that period. Theperpetual calendar part is PP (and has nothing to do with Valjoux's own calendar versions, which are simple calendars).
Valjoux's cal. VZ is the base of a whole family of iterations, mainly :
· VZ - base chrono with minute counter
· VZH - chrono with minute and hour counter
· VZQ - chrono with minute counter and simple calendar
· VZHQ - chrono with minute and hour counter and simple calendar
I'm unsure about an eventual calendar with moonphase version, but have seen references towards at least VZHQL which would mean chrono, minute and hoour counter and calendar with moonphase. But as said, I'm not 100% sure I've seen one in the flesh ( the simple versions are becoming rare, the calendar version even more ).
The next generation had soome changes to the chrono levers and springs, but going train and basic design remains - cal names changed into:
· 23
· 72
· 23C
· 72C
· 88 - minute and hour counter, calendar with moonphase
Even later there were an extended and partially revised range and the cal. numbers got three digit. Slightly altered beat rate was onemodification, but also flyback and a simple date with cut out at 6 for cal. 23 example. There are many and I'm not able to list them all outof the top of my head.
A good and reliable going train of a chronograph movement was always considered a good base for a high precision time only as well - no wonder as the "power supply" is designed to serve for a complicated (and power consuming) movement, with reducing friction and complications time keeping can only improve. The time only with calendar calibers 78 and 90 are such "reduced" versions - 78 is calendar only and 90 with the calendar part of cal 88 which means full calendar with moonphase.
Some manufacturers, like PP and Audemars for good reasons chose this base caliber for their ww precision timekeepers. In later 40ties this caliber perfectly fitted the newly created ww movement observatory category oof 30mm movements. From PP I only know the VZ normal version with seconds at 9 - basically it's the stripped version of the chronograph. AP used three versions as time only, what they called the VZAS, VZSS and VZSSc. VZAS is time only with seconds at "9", VZSS is time only with seconds at "6" .
I believe the last "S" in AP terminology stands for seconde. For VZSS I believe the first "S" indicates "savonette" for the small second at v"6". The VZSSc is the savonette version with an indirectly driven center sweep second.
The difference between VZAS and VZSS base is mainly a swapped barrel and crown wheel position - they simply change place. The result beeing seconds on "9" (for the "original" chronoo going train layout) versus small seconds at "6" for VZSS, the savonette layout.
BTW, the last picture (which I believe is from Osterhausens ww chronometer book) is an error - the movement shown is the savonette version (VZSS) while the pictures only show the seconds at "9" former chrono base layout (or one could also say Lepine, as originally this chrono layout was also used in open face pocket watches).
One should also note, that AP and PP both used a secial mainplate with this Valjoux based movements - among others it allows for solid pallet bankings (required by the geneva seal for example) and is well recognizable by the different pallet bridge (also steel instead of brass here).Hope this helps a bit - and of course all corrections and additions more than welcome!
Best regards
Suitbert

Was soll ich dazu sagen? DANKE an Euch. Grandios. Ich werde diese Beiträge mal alle mit Eurer Erlaubnis ausdrucken und dem Eigentümer dieser Uhr zukommen lassen. Der freut sich bestimmt riesig.